Hello Peeps
Mr Indignant here.....Have you seen what "His masters voice" wrote over on the blog ??????, Hahahaha, How to make friends and influence people......Mr Stupid !!!! now hold on there Ernie..Just because people used to cut you up in your milkfloat around the B roads of Essex back in the 80's, that's no reason to pick on us Idiots now you have the power of the off switch !!!! You know our brains goes soft when something else goes hard and we kid ourselves that i look like "Sean Connery" in "from Russia with love", and because we are western men WE KNOW that Chinese girls would crawl over broken glass for the pleasure of kissing our feet, just for the chance of marrying us!!! if i am too stupid or arrogant to see the "Wood for the Trees" then you know i'm about to come a cropper, I don't need a smug success story calling me names!!!!! How about getting on the Forum and telling it like it is instead.....for that matter why don't we all??????You are right, If you read any of these forums, it seems so easy and painless, do A,B,C, and welcome to the promised land of bliss!!! Why don't we tell of the tears and fears, the failures??? I have had my share.....If there is an increase in the "Mr Stupid's" walking down this road, then (maybe) a little of the fault lies at the feet of those walking ahead???
I don't mind being "Tarred" with the brush of "Mr Stupid" The people i love know me, and it gives me an advantage over those who don't know me but think that i'm stupid.
Mr Old Pervert........Andy Pandy wrote "Recently I was in conversation with a Nanning visitor, a good honourable Ex Pat western man.
"It was like being in a room full of perverts" was his summing up of an evening out in the company of some of the Ex Pats here in Nanning."......Well pinning one's flag to the mast (and not wishing Johnny to stand out there alone)...The Ex Pat refered too could well by me (i have no way of knowing how many other conversations he has had where this has been said...but) I said this to him...Let's take the "Western/Chinese flavour out of this, if (in your own local area) a 60-70 year old man was having sex with a 18-25 year old girl, would you think him a Stud??? or a Dirty Old Man???...What if the girl was related to you???
Look , we have to get over the cultural differences, yes, the age gap (in most cases, [mine is 15 years]), the difficulties of marriage (i was once told it's like driving a car, you start learning once you've past your test), the twiching net curtains of the local "Dot Cotten" the last thing i need is to be "Tarred" with the brush of "Pervert"
When we return to Nanning, be it on holiday, visting family or (as in my case) living there for part of the year, i don't want the Chinese people looking at me and thinking .............I don't want my wife embarresed..... we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend it is'nt happening or say "It's nothing to do with me" or " What can i do about it"....OR (Like Johnny) stick our heads up above the parapit and say NO NO NO , DON'T TAR ME WITH THAT BRUSH.........(they have been driven out of lands to the south of china, do you want these people in Nanning?).....If we do not isolate ourselves from these people, when the Chinese authorities decide to clean house....god help us

I do know the identity of the "Nanning visitor" as I was present at the evening out on the night before he went to see Johnny. Let me say that this "room full of perverts" spends an awful lot of money on charity each year.

There is an old Chinese saying which goes something like this: Fragrant flower flourishing in bulls**t. It is used when a young girl has an old man on her arm. This isn't a new phenomenon. The young Chinese girls have been throwing themselves at rich older gentlemen for centuries. Don't they all claim in their profiles to be "a traditional Chinese lady" translated as "I'll sleep with you on the first night if I think you can improve my life, and when you've returned to the West I'll become someone else's concubine". When did it become "traditional" for Chinese women to use the internet to attract sexual partners? Do you know any Westerner who has come to Nanning and hasn't been 'laid' by one of these scheming young women?

Are they perverts because they get hit-on by pretty Chinese nymphos ten times a week and accept some of the offers? What about the young girls who are hitting on old men? Doesn't this tell you something about how it really is? Grow up gentlemen and come into the real World and accept the women who use internet dating and frequent 'English Corners' for what they really are. Going fishing to U-Touch?

Frankly, I'm embarrasssed by a lot of the Westerners who come here to meet 'the woman of their dreams'. They arrive badly dressed, unclean, unprepared, badly mannered and poor as church mice. What an impression they create. And yet even then the woman graciously accepts them.

Chinatyke

Hmmmmm someone has opened a can of worms,maybe i'm a lucky person as i found my wife in the uk or maybe she found me,ok there is an age difference,17 years to be precise,and it was only after meeting her did i find where Nanning is,and again it was only just before going to China to get married that i found a website that told me some of the things i needed to know.Why go to china to get married ?? because i'm an old man and believe in asking her father if i could marry his daughter,have second thoughts,no,i also understand why some chinese women will marry a western man after only e-mailing them for a few months,walk around London and you will see a lot of older men with a young women by his side,is it his wife or daughter ?? yes i know a lot of older men go to china to fullfill there dreams of being a young man again and promise them the earth but after 2 weeks disappear.
But a lot of men have found that women of there own country are know worldly wise and only use men for there own gratification just like men have used women for theres,so those men go to asian country's because there women are more subservant,maybe i am lucky and have found a decent wife or maybe my wife has found a decent man,but we have been together over 3 years and married for over 2 years and yes there have been a few sniggers from my work colleagues but so far we have stood the test of time,sorry if i have drifted off the subject but it is 3-30am here and i'm going to bed

Great post Andrew. Someone needed to say that. Mr Stupid, 3 months email x ten days in Nanning= marriage deserves all he gets. He has left his flank open and as in battle he will lose. As far as Mr Pevert is concerned, a lady whom I visted in Nanning (and did not get laid as my intuition told me that this was not a good idea), told me that some of her friends go to a certain cafe and have sex with foreigners in exchange for English lessons. I wondered then how much using of women occurs in this type of setting. I have no doubt that many of the ladies are there to 'fish' as well but this does not excuse predatory behaviour by men from stronger economies.

I have not problems with age difference as long as the lady is an adult e.g. 50 year old man and 28 year old lady is no problem to me for those brave enough to try this. I have problems if the lady is of late adolescent age or very young adult and is vulnerable to promises due to the poverty and the lack of opportunity of the environment she lives in.

Marcus

Marcus,

Fishing is open to all, there are male and female anglers.
I never did like fishing as a sport.

Predatory behaviour is not limited to the older man. It is exhibited by some the younger generation of females who use their charms to obtain what they want from their victims. It is also exhibited by dating agency staff who reel in the Mr Stupids of the internet. They know exactly what they are doing.

Incidentally, I agree with A n d r e w (or Johnny). Do not for one moment think I'm defending Mr.Pervert. I think it is time someone told the real story and not the slush you see written on some message boards by members wearing rose-tinted spectacles.

If you are happy to marry a stranger, go ahead. I took the risk and it worked in my case. Perhaps I got lucky.

Graham

Hello again
Graham , am i right in guessing that you think that i'm Andrew ?....Don't forget that you've met me! Oh i see, you think that when we met i was "Working undercover"....many people telephone me here, and quite a few of the wives living here in the uk telephone my wife..(they seem to have quite a network going....good for them) , maybe you think that i have the calls redirected to Nanning?.....of course you could just go to the "New Flower Market" and say Hello to Andrew!!!! When we met and you said that you had never met Andrew i found that strange.....Maybe it's just me but if i lived in a city of a couple of million almost half way round the world, where perhaps 2 dozen western men lived, i hope that i would at least say HI and maybe swap telephone numbers with them,
Ah well each to his own
I am glad that you've come out in support (eventually) against Mr Pervert
Hi Steve
Glad to her that you have found Miss Right, i hope that you both get all you want from the rest of your life. Steve i am sure that you are one of the "Good Honourable" men, and let me take a moment to assure you and anyone else on this site, that i do not assume that the majority are either Mr Stupid or Mr Pervert but rather Mr Bloody Lucky and Mr "Piss off pervert and get out of our community"
Hi Marcus
You wrote "I have not problems with age difference as long as the lady is an adult e.g. 50 year old man and 28 year old lady is no problem to me for those brave enough to try this. I have problems if the lady is of late adolescent age or very young adult " Spot on as far i'm concerned.
I do not agree that just because it's there or because you are being "Pestered", that an Adult male cannot resist temption and just "DO THE RIGHT THING"

No, John, I'm not suggesting that at all. I know who you are and who A n d r e w is. I was just saying that whenever I typed "ANDREW" into a posting it was automatically changed to Johnny. You'll know how websites can screen some words and change them to anything you want displayed. This facility is often used to moderate swear words and other undesirable words. Perhaps "ANDREW" considers himself undesirable?

I'm sorry if I gave the impression of defending Mr Pervert, that was never my intention. I was defending the Mr Ex-Pats who Good Honourable Mr Ex-Pat thinks are all perverts. Isn't "ANDREW" an ex-pat also?

No, I've never met "ANDREW". He prefers plants to mixing with real people. Maybe he's got a point.

We are about to get rid of the biggest abuser of the Nanning females. He will be moving to another city very shortly.

Graham

OK gentlemen,i do not live in Nanning and admit i do not know first hand what goes on,but after reading various blogs i see men go to Nanning or other parts of China to get themselves a wife,now i'm not an expert in those fields but to my limited knowledge you need to know the person your marrying,that means spending time together,not e-mailing and two weeks holiday during that time they get married,then the problems start for getting the new bride back to there own country,and most important making sure the new wife understands the way of life that operate there because it is very very different to what they are use to.
I am also aware that some men who reside in Nanning are using gullible women for there own use by promising them things that they have no intension of carrying out,and when they get tired of them they bring in another victim,i know this as i have spoken to men who have no conceniouse of what they are doing,just enjoying themselves and some women are also doing this to learn English so they can find a man to marry and get out of China.
What really worry's me is that hopefully i shall come to Nanning to live next year and be pestered by some of these women who think that all Europeans are the same,you teach me English and i will give you sex,sorry but that is not a scene that i want or need.
I must admit i'm green as i've only been to Nanning 3 times but every Chinese person that i've met has been polite and helpful to me and my wife,even when i've gone walkabout on my own,everybody has been kind.
I also understand why the expat's meet,so they can keep up to date with whats going on and to speak and listen to there own language,to me they are important as they have there finger on the pulse so know whats going on and the impart information which to someone like me is important.

Prostitution? Isn't this what we are really talking about when, as Marcus states above, the women exchange sex for English lessons?

Prostitutes are a part of most communities. They come in all shapes and sizes, young and old. You have the choice of using their services. Go to the morally bankrupt parts of Thailand, like Pattaya or Patpong, and you'll see prostitutes openly displaying their wares. They don't offend me. Indeed they are usually polite and kind. I accept that they are working to support their families. It's the same in Nanning but done in a different way.

I'm not suggesting that all Nanning women are doing this, or that all ladies on dating sites are prostitutes. I do have at least one lady friend who makes her living that way and who attends an English corner venue and is featured on a dating site. Some poor Mr Stupid will marry this "traditional Chinese lady" and then find he cannot get his new wife back to his own country. I have no doubt that there are plenty more like her on the dating websites: caveat emptor. If we are using "Andrews" broad tar brush, does that make all men who use dating sites Voyeurs?

I am under no false illusions of what goes on in my chosen community. Personally, I don't need to go fishing or teach English and I take full responsibility for my own conduct in all matters.

Graham

And there's the rub Graham, you take responsibility for your conduct, if more did that then there would be less finger pointing.

What is traditional anyway? No-one has ever answered that question to my satisfaction, yet each of us interprete it in many different ways and are so suprised/hurt when the truth comes out.

I know there are lucky ones among the group, but if more turned up in Nanning with the mindset of going on a "first date" not getting married and then the first date, there would be a lot less tears.
Know the woman certainly, but also know yourself first and your real reasons for the way you act.

This is the most frank discussion I have read on the Nanning/China Western/Chinese marriage dynamics. I have not seen anything on any site with this degree of frankness of discussion regarding the Western/Chinese marriage. It is refreshing, the truth sets us free, people are getting real.

In my trip to Nanning to meet a woman I did not learn much. All I knew was that I felt uncomfortable and was unable to relax. The woman I went to see was only focussed on marriage and I was asked by her if I was going to marry her (through the translator) within one hour of my arrival at my hotel. Relationship was not an issue, love did not come into it. It was al about helping her to get into a situation where she had a future in a financial and social status sense.

On my second trip I was on my own and learned a lot more. I spent some time in Shekou in Shenzhen and noticed the bar girls and prostitues, Chinese women living with ex pats twice their age with no promise of marriage, just a living. I could see that relying on the internet and marrying in haste could land you with a bar girl, street prostitue, a tough lady or if you were lucky, a nice one. It became evident to me that if you were going to find a nice Chinese lady you would have to meet many, get to know the country and go slowly. This of course is not easy to do when you live 12 hours flying time away and do not know the language and/or the culture. I could see that the old saying was still true, marry in haste, repent at leisure.

The posts here may help some men be a little more careful and treat the decision about who you marry with the seriousness that is needed to protect yourself. They may realise that it is not somehting that should be taken lightly.

Marcus

I married my first wife, who was also Scottish, 5 months after first meeting her. That marriage lasted 13 years until she decided she was a lasbian and went off with another woman.
I married my second wife, who was Kenyan, 1 year after meeting her in Kenya. She was 20 years younger than me. We corresponded by email, letter and phone over the year, then got married. We got settlement visas for her and her daughter one week after the wedding but she refused to return to the UK with me. 50 weeks later she came to the UK with her daughter but they decided they did not like it here and returned to Kenya after 2 weeks. Despite not wanting to live in the UK she refused to agree to a divorce so it took me 5 years to divorce her.
I had no intention of ever marrying again after this divorce but then I met my current wife on the internet (not a "dating site") in March 2007. We chatted for one to two hours, twice every day, by Instant Messenger, so we could see each other on webcam and speak "live" on microphones and headsets. We sometimes resorted to translation programs or an electronic translator but we did not have another person doing the translating. We married after 6 months, got visas one month later and we and her teenage son have been living happily in the UK since then. I have only had one person (an ex-girlfriend) who has commented adversely on the fact that my current wife is young enough to be my daughter. There is a 21 year age gap. My wife's first husband in China was 10 years older than her.
I do intend to move semipermanently to China after I retire when my pension will be about 10 times what my wife was earning as an office worker in Nanning. We have already bought a reasonably large house, 350 square metres, in Nanning where her parents can live with us.
With regard to older men getting married to younger women; this seems to be acceptable when it is Michael Douglas, Clint Eastwood, Des O Conner, Paul McCartney et al.
David

What a load of tosh.It is YOUR choice in who you go out with or marry.That' what I have always found to be the best way of looking at things.
Screw anybody's else's thoughts.
Get on with life.
Dave and Wu Ming(who is 15 years my junior but Confucious says this is a good age difference)Who am I to argue with Confucious.

Hi Marcus
This forum is self-moderating so within reason we can approach topics in any way we want and not be influenced by a committee. Good manners and normal sensible rules still apply, but feel free to discuss topics openly.

I have strong views about certain things and sometimes post things just to be controversial, but Wizard takes the credit for this interesting topic which was raised by A in His Blog.

Your approach is the best one. We always advocate getting to know a person properly before you marry them. Trouble is, some of us don't heed our own advice and we take a chance. It is difficult when there are thousands of miles between you, and especially when the lady has brought along her 'cousin' (read agent) to pile the pressure on you to marry quickly so she can get the fee.

More and more Westerners are jumping on the bandwagon and starting up dating sites/agencies. All you need is a computer and a few contacts and the gullible girls will fall over themselves to become your clients to get the chance to marry a foreigner. They are almost guaranteed success and only have to pay a few years wages in return. In any case, the astronomical fees will usually be borne by their future husband. Perhaps these girls also get English lessons before meeting their intended in return for favours.

Isn't this exploitation of a different kind?

Take a cursory look at the dating sites. If the English is bad, and mostly it is atrocious, that will be an indication of the quality of the management. The sites are managed by the same bunch of guys (I'm being polite) who have become 'English teachers' (ha ha, big joke) and cannot spell their own name, let alone know the difference between their (possessive pronoun) and there (adverb) and how and where to use the words. The grammar school system was wonderful in it's time. There (interjection), I'm on my soapbox again.

I think I'll set up a free dating agency or show the ladies how to use free sites so that they are not exploited by a few money-grabbing ex-pats.

That's my rant for this morning! Am I just being controversial again? Take a look for yourself.

Chinatyke

Geez Graham, you have just stuffed up my plan to become filthy rich by exploiting the poor Chinese girl with the promise of getting a western husband for them, if you set up a free site I will arrange a pack of dogs to pee on your trousers whenever you venture outside...
Seriously now, I have suggested to my wife that we should help some genuine ladies to meet some genuine men from other countries as there are as many "fake" ladies as there are "fake" men coming to China with the promise of marriage.
My wife has suggested a 6 month program where the girl is taught some english, only to use current photographs, date stamped, and to verify that the guy is genuine before he comes to Nanning. We will arrange a hotel for him, and if he wants to marry her, we will show them the "when, where, how" of what needs to be done. of course there will be a charge for this, but not the huge cost and "agent" fee when the guy arrives at the airport.
Just thinking Graham.......if you do a free service, as well as the pack of dogs, I might get a few trained pidgeons to use you as a statue...

Hi Frank,
How do you "verify that the guy is genuine"???

Hi David,
"verify" Knowing that the guy has all the necessary papers in order for a proposal of marriage.........cannot do any more than that.......then it is up to nature to take it's course.....hopefully that will deter the "studs" from preying on these women..

Hi Guys
i think that more discussions like this is whats needed

I agree that there can be both male and female preditors (if you where a "Chicken" and wanted to sell your wears, what better than a room full of "Rich" old men, some of whom are desparate to prove (to themself) that they have "Still got it".....), but i am afraid that, that is the climate that the pervert needs, he needs cover and where better to hide than in a crowd (nod,wink and the thumbs up....he's a hell of a boy that one)
also it a shame that, what on paper (a weekly get together of western men in a "far away land" for a good old gossip) is a good idea, could be ruined by a few (but only with the indiffrence of the many)

Like many others here, i have met genuine ladies there, who really want to meet western men (for a multiude of reasons), and sadly many of these have paid quite a lot of money to "Matchmakers" to put them in contact with western men....at the risk of sounding hard, sadly we can not put the world to right and we are not "about" correcting all the wrongs in Nanning, but rather we are for the Help and Assistance of our members........

If we really want to help others walking this road, then we should always tell it "warts and all" whenever we can

Also.....it has always puzzled me how these forums can have so many members who post nothing !!!! come on lads....EVERYBODY has something to contribute...the discussion we stimulate. the knowledge we share

John

Kraziman

I had no problem with the age difference of the couples I saw in Shekou. I was just making the point that I got more of the feel of China by going on my own. I think that marriages work better if the man is older. I don't like the western way of the men being only a few years older than the women. In many cultures men are much older than the women they marry. I think it gves the man more a chance of surviving and having some influence. I would have no problems taking up with a lady 20 years younger providing that there was the attraction needed to make a relationship work and I knew what she was about.

Marcus